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Catching Up with Mable John

Unless you’re a serious student of R&B, you probably haven’t heard of Mable John. But among her many accomplishments, John has the distinction of being the first female artist ever signed to the Tamla/Motown label. She was also the musical director of The Raelettes, Ray Charles’ backing group – while her own backing group on some early singles was The Primettes, a group that later went on to massive fame under the name Diana Ross & The Supremes. Although she only had one big hit herself, and never became a household name, Mable John has definitely secured a spot in music history.

But those are just her accomplishments in the realm of R&B music. In addition being a singer, John has also been a registered nurse; a secretary for an insurance company; head of a music publishing company; a minister; head of an organization that helps the homeless; the author of three novels; and a mother, grandmother and great-grandmother.

Mable John was born 78 years ago next month in Bastrop, Louisiana, the eldest of 10 children. One of her siblings, Little Willie John, would later become a very successful R&B singer in his own right. When she was still a child, her family moved from Louisiana to Arkansas and then to Detroit, Michigan. It was after graduating from high school in Detroit that John landed a job as a secretary at the Friendship Mutual Insurance Company. Her boss there was none other than Bertha Gordy whose son, Berry Gordy Jr., founded Motown Records. This led to her being signed to the label in 1959 and cutting several singles for it.

After leaving Motown, John spent the mid to late ’60s recording with another legendary soul label, Stax Records. This is where she saw her greatest commercial success. John worked extensively with folks like Isaac Hayes and Booker T. Jones and cut another series of singles, including one bona fide R&B smash, “Your Good Thing (Is About to End),” in 1966.

John’s next stop was with Ray Charles, where during the 1970s she performed as a member of The Raelettes, in addition to serving as their musical director.  One December night in the ‘70s, she was onstage with Charles and The Raelettes in Birmingham, Alabama when she heard a voice she says was God telling her to go home. That was when she began studying ministry. In the years to come, John furthered her education, studying the Bible in Hebrew and Greek. In 1992, she received her Doctor in Divinity degree and established the Joy in Jesus Ministries.

These days, John is based in Los Angeles where she continues to practice ministry and also directs the Joy Community Outreach to End Homelessness. The organization not only offers food and clothing to the homeless but also provides them with counseling, Bible study and job training. In addition to all her other accomplishments, John has recently become a published author. Since 2006, she has collaborated with noted writer David Ritz on a charming series of novels about “Pastor Albertina Merci,” an R&B singer turned minister. Sound familiar?

I recently had a chance to catch up with Mable John. Here are some excerpts from our conversation.


Tell me about your childhood. How long did you spend in the South before moving to the Detroit area? And what are your first musical memories?

It was one completely supervised by my mother and father, right down to our educational curriculum. They only let us learn those things they thought would help us blossom into prosperous adults. They taught us how to behave on all levels, even when it came to sitting down to the table. You know how today no one eats together, this one eats now and that one eats later? No, my mother set a formal table at each meal and we sat down together as a family and had three meals a day. We didn’t get to look in a pot and say, “I don’t want that” or “I don’t like that.” When you finished eating, if you wanted to leave the table, you stood up and said, “I’ve had enough and may I be excused?” You didn’t just leave. Then, whoever’s turn it was to clean the kitchen, cleaned the kitchen. You didn’t run outside and play or so anything else until you finished your chores. We were very well trained and organized children. Today, we find children don’t even know how to set a proper table. My mother taught me how to cook. We always had a starch, a green vegetable, a meat and a dessert. We never ate out of a can. Everything was made from scratch.

I was twelve years old when we moved from Arkansas to Detroit.

My first musical memories are of listening to the Grand Ole Opry on the radio. We also heard John Richburg, who was a popular DJ who played country and blues on a station that came out of Nashville. Then, my mother taught the first five of us children to sing Gospel music in the Holiness church. We couldn’t wear lipstick or wear pants. As a girl, I never owned a pair of slacks because it was thought to be an abomination to God, but my mother taught us differently. She said, “You aren’t wearing a man’s clothes. These are clothes made for a woman.” I didn’t start wearing jeans or slacks until I was grown. She wanted us to know both sides but when we were in church we abided by those rules and when we became grown, we did what we wanted to do.

You were the first female artist signed to Tamla/Motown by Berry Gordy. How did that come about?

I was the first single female artist at the label. Claudette Robinson sang with the Miracles, but I was the first solo female. Berry Gordy didn’t have a Motown at that time. He managed the Miracles and me. He wrote songs and managed us. The first label was Tamla. A boyfriend of mine – Mac Bursey – had a barbershop and he used to process Berry’s hair. Berry’s mom gave me my first job but I didn’t know he was related to her. She kept telling me she had a son who was going to be big in music. He hadn’t done anything up to that time. So one day, I went to the barbershop and Mac was there doing Berry’s hair. At the time, I was conducting gospel choirs around Detroit for free. Mac introduced me to Berry and said, “Instead of singing free all over town, you ought to let this man help your career.” So, that’s when Berry became my manager. He rehearsed the Miracles and I in his mother’s living room. Then, other times, we rehearsed at Claudette’s place in the Brewster Projects.

The idea of signing to Tamla/Motown came about at the Rockland Palace in New York, probably in 1958. Smokey Robinson and I were there with Berry Gordy for a BMI awards dinner. He had won an award for writing one of Jackie Wilson’s songs. Prior to that time, Berry had recorded songs [by] myself and the Miracles. He was shopping those songs around [and] that night he told us that he couldn’t place our masters. So, Smokey and I said, “Why don’t you start your own record label?” I went on to say that if you do that, I’ll stay with you forever. Berry turned to me and said, “Never say that. Never say you will stay with anyone forever because they may not be able to give you what you need or what you want. We can bond and be friends forever.” So, we left it like that.  I knew what Berry liked to eat, what he liked to do and I know all this because I was the one driving him around because he didn’t have a car of his own at the time.


Legend has it that your backing group was briefly Diana Ross and the Supremes.  Any specific memories of Diana, Mary or Flo?

In the beginning, we all supported each other and we all supported Berry’s dream. So we sang backgrounds or did handclaps to help whoever was in the studio. I was in there when Marvin Gaye was recording. Sometimes, we wouldn’t do anything but “ooh” and “aah,” but we all did that for each other. At the time that the Supremes did backing vocals on some of my songs, they were known as the Primettes.

My relationship with Diana and Mary is still good. I’m one of the few people that has Diana’s’ home address. I don’t have bad experiences with anybody and that doesn’t make news; it just makes good sense. As a result, I was left out of a lot of things [like the “Motown 25” TV special] because I didn’t have any horror stories or drama. They say I was too sanctified. In fact, do you know how I got the name of the book Sanctified Blues? When Berry Gordy and his sisters were coaching me and training me on transitioning from being a gospel singer into being a blues singer, he said to me, “You will always be a little sanctified blues singer.” That title didn’t even come from me. Berry gave me that almost 50 years ago.


You also sung with Ray Charles for many years, as a member of The Raelettes. Tell me what it was like working with Ray. I imagine you got to know him pretty well over the years.

I was the lead singer and the director of the Raelettes for about seven years, I guess. It was business and music. Ray Charles was a stickler for everything being right in business and in music. That’s all I’m going to say about that.


I also wanted to ask you what it was like working with Booker T. Jones. If I’m not mistaken, he backed you on some of your Stax recordings. Booker always struck me as not only a talented musician but a cool guy in general. Was that the case?

Yes, he is, and it was wonderful to be in the studio with Booker T. He also wrote some of the songs I did at Stax like “Same Time, Same Place.” He is exactly one of the most talented men I’ve ever worked with and a good friend.


Tell me about your biggest hit, “Your Good Thing (Is About to End).” How did you come to record that song or any memories of recording it that you have?

When I went to Memphis in 1966, I‘d been assigned to Isaac Hayes and David Porter as my producers. I went there with no songs in mind because at Motown, the songs were already there and ready to be recorded. So Isaac and David had nothing for me. I had had an experience with one of my ex-husbands where I had been hurt, so I told them I had a story I needed to tell. I asked Isaac to play something on the keyboard and I talked to David and he started putting what I said into verses. That’s the only song they helped me write. In fact, there would not have been any “Good Thing” written if I had not told that story. Of course, it went on to sell a million copies and it’s been recorded by Etta James, Lou Rawls and people like that.


When was it that you first decided to move from music to ministry? Was it a slow evolution, or was there more of a sudden “A-Ha!” type of moment?

That was not something I wanted to do. I was standing on the stage with Ray Charles and God audibly called me and said, “Go home.” This was around 1976. I looked around to see where the voice was coming from but there was no one there. God had told me to go home because he had another work for me to do. So I left and went to Bible School and prepared myself for the work that I do now.


I’ve been enjoying Sanctified Blues and the other Albertina Merci books. I know Albertina is based on you, but in what ways are you different?

Albertina is fictional and Mable is real. That’s the only difference.

In Sanctified Blues, the character Maggie Clay goes ballistic on Albertina at one point, asking her how there can be a benevolent God if such unfair and horrible things happen in this world (like the death of the lovely young character Cindy). I’m curious about how you would respond to this question if it was Mable, and not Albertina, who Maggie was speaking with.

Mable did answer it because that was me. It happened to me in real life when one of my sons died of cancer. A Christian came to me and said, “You prayed and he’s dead.” I said, “He’s dead to you but alive to God.”

In the third book, Love Tornado, Albertina’s godson, J. Love, at one point leaves religious rapping for the very different (and dangerous) world of gangsta rap. I’m curious – as a religious woman and also as a singer, how do you feel about this genre of music?

I’m more interested in the words that come out of their mouth than the melody. I’m not against the rap if it has eternal value. I’m against anything, even Christian music, if it doesn’t have eternal value.

 

Any thoughts on Barack Obama, who will hopefully be our next president? Would you have believed that we might have a black president in this country?

It’s my prayer that Barack Obama becomes our next president. Not because he’s black, not because he’s young, not because he’s handsome -- but because of what he stands for. I am a bona fide Democrat and I believe Obama will bring the change we need.

I did believe, because of what my father said to us as siblings -- that we were Negro or black and we cant change that, but we change other things. He said that one day we’ll have a Negro president but when we do, that person will have to be twice as eloquent and twice as astute as anybody else who’s ever held the position and Obama fits that definition for me.


Tell me about your Joy Community to Outreach to End Homelessness program.

It was organized in 1986 as a missions organization to help the homeless and the needy. We address the needs of every part of their life to regain status or to become great citizens and this is across the racial spectrum. We help everybody that comes. Our job is to be conduits to find solutions to help people enrich their lives. All solutions are God’s and they’re on loan to us by God. All knowledge comes from God although a lot of people think they know it all -- but we know better than that [laughs].

words by Dave Steinfeld

 

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