Catching Up With Curt Smith

Most people know Curt Smith as one half of the English duo Tears For Fears. One of the biggest bands of the mid 1980s bar none, Tears For Fears was actually formed several years earlier from the ashes of a lesser-known group called Graduate. Led by Smith and Roland Orzabal and augmented by various other musicians, they released their debut album, The Hurting, in early 1983. A moderate success, the disc contrasted catchy, slick tunes with lyrics that often addressed deep pain. Sample song titles: “Mad World,” “Suffer the Children,” “Watch Me Bleed” and “Start of the Breakdown.” You get the idea.

Two years later, Tears For Fears returned with their sophomore set, Songs from the Big Chair. This album was a massive hit, containing no less than three huge singles: “Shout,” “Head Over Heels” and “Everybody Wants to Rule the World.” Smith sung lead on the latter, which is arguably the best (and most popular) song the band ever produced. Songs from the Big Chair made Tears For Fears worldwide stars and was one of those rare albums that was a commercial smash while having enough substance to maintain the band’s credibility.

Unfortunately, things began to go downhill not that long after Tears For Fears reached their pinnacle. For one thing, the band members had been touring non-stop in the wake of their second album’s success and were understandably drained. And recording a worthy follow-up proved no easy feat. Smith and Orzabal labored for years over their third album, going through a 10-month false start and often disagreeing about the direction they should go in. The Seeds of Love finally appeared at the tail end of the ‘80s, by which time Smith had made the decision to leave the band. The album spawned a hit with the Beatlesque title track but on the whole was nowhere near as successful as Songs from the Big Chair had been.

During the ‘90s, Orzabal kept the Tears For Fears torch burning, releasing albums sporadically under the band’s name. Smith also recorded sporadically, issuing his solo debut, Soul on Board, in 1993. But considering that he was half of one of the most popular duos of the ‘80s, he kept a remarkably low profile in the decade that followed – and this was largely by choice. For the most part, Smith focused on his personal life, making his home in New York, meeting his wife there and later moving to Los Angeles. Now a married father of two little girls, family is very important to Smith – in no small part because his own childhood was less than ideal.

Earlier this year, Smith released Halfway, pleased, his first album in over a decade, on his own KOOK Media label. He actually began work on the disc seven years ago but put things on hold when Tears For Fears regrouped for 2005’s Everybody Loves a Happy Ending. Roland Orzabal often gets credit for being Tears For Fears’ “leader” – and from a writing and production standpoint, that may have been true. But Smith was an integral part of the band, responsible for what may have been its biggest asset: his voice. On the new album, his vocals still sound sublime. Halfway, pleased is full of moody, midtempo songs that are perfect for fall days. It is also a personal album, dealing with Smith’s past, present and future. “I figure I’m about halfway through life and I’m quite pleased,” he says in reference to the title. “It’s where I find myself at this moment. Making the transition from my carefree thirties into the responsibility of being a father – from the need to protest into the desire to protect.”

I recently caught up with Curt Smith over lunch in New York’s meat-packing district. Whether the subject was pop music, politics or his past, I found him to be engagingly open. Here are some excerpts from our conversation.

I’m gonna start by asking you about the new album.  Tell me about the recording process. From what I understand, you started recording it years ago.

Well, I started when I moved to Los Angeles from New York,  which was now maybe 10 years ago. And I probably was writing on and off for about a year or so, and then I started recording some with Charlton [Pettus], who I write with and work with. And then that during that sort of process, Roland called me up and said “Would you be interested in doing another Tears For Fears album?” I was in two minds about it. So I decided that I was going to England to visit my family and I said “Let’s go have dinner and we’ll talk about it.”  So to cut a long story short, that ended up happening, we ended up doing it. So the whole Tears project really took five years from start to finish because of the writing, then the recording, then the delayed release… and the touring afterwards, which was a year and a half as well. So that took a whole bunch of time out of the project. So it wasn’t until all that was done that I could come back and finish the recording of this one and mix it. So it was a long time from start to finish.

Tell me about the opening track [on the new album], “Perfect Day.”

The happiest song about suicide you’ve ever heard?

Right, deceptively.

It’s about a suicide bomber, basically. I started it and then 9/11 happened. So [it] had a new poignancy when I came to finish it. And it’s basically that sort of feeling of, they’re completely happy to die. They’re content. This is their purpose. So hence, “It’s a perfect day to blow myself away.”

And the other side of it was, I always got the feeling that depression is no way to go. I always feel that if I’m going, I wanna be completely happy when it happens. “Cause I think that would be much better. You know, your last feeling shouldn’t be ‘Oh, fuck.’ It really should be ‘Everything’s good.’ And I sort of applied that to this song about the suicide bomber. Because of 9/11, that happened while I was writing that song, so it was all very peculiar. And that hit me a lot when that happened because, you know, living in New York. I’d only just moved to L.A. And it was kind of my neighborhood… Our closest friend, who lived just around the corner from us, actually watched the second plane going in. You know, she was standing on West Broadway there where we lived near there. And obviously the first one had already gone and everyone’s out in the street and then the second one comes in. And I was just trying to put myself in the mindset of what they must be thinking when they’re doing it. And I think they think this is their purpose. I’m certainly not glorifying it in any way, shape or form. But it’s fascinating to me how these people could do it.

Tell me about the title song, “Halfway Pleased.” It’s interesting to track your journey from 25 years or so ago, you know, [from] The Hurting, and all these painful songs, to Halfway, pleased. You seem these days to be pretty happy.

Yeah, I definitely am. I guess a lot of the time I probably use the word “content” more than “happy.” I’m not a happy, happy guy. But, you know, I have my moments. “Halfway Pleased” the song itself is not the same as the album title. You know, the album title actually has the comma in the middle. And interesting that you would reference The Hurting because the reason I chose the album sleeve was specifically because of that. The Hurting –in [most of] the world, it was a white sleeve with one little kid curled up in the corner, obviously in pain or whatever. And this one is a white sleeve as well but it’s me with my kids, walking away. You know, it’s interesting how far I’ve come from there and how subject matters have changed.

“Halfway Pleased” itself is actually more about my relationship with my mother. It was an exercise in trying to go from the day I was born, which is the first two lines, through to how I’m gonna feel when she dies. And a difficult relationship I’ve had with her – which I have, you know, throughout my life. Trying to condense that into three verses was a fascinating exercise.

I had no idea.

Yeah, I mean the whole “bathed and crowned” – ‘cause it’s me and you, so it’s sung from her perspective in one verse and my perspective in another verse. “You’re bathed and crowned” is her talking to me, “I’m bruised and torn,” ‘cause she’s the one that just gave birth.

So tell me about what it’s like to be able to vote.

I couldn’t have picked a better year to become a citizen. I became a citizen because I know I’m not moving back [to England] and because of being able to vote. I’m sitting here watching George Bush, whom I despise pretty much, and I wanted to lend my voice. Obviously, I don’t get to vote him out of office ‘cause he’s leaving anyway. But I can prevent another one of his ilk [from] coming in. So I became a citizen. I’ve been an active supporter of Barack Obama since I first saw him speak. So it’s exciting…. And it’s not just [about] my candidate of choice winning, I think it says huge things about how far America’s come. I mean, could you imagine four years ago, black guy, Arab-sounding name – he’s gonna be our next president? And it changes drastically the world’s view of America, which is a big deal. For the last eight years, you don’t wanna tell anyone you’re American. I mean, you don’t. They despise Americans. ‘Cause they believe Americans are George Bush. Unfortunately, that’s what a president does. He is the figurehead and they think everyone agrees with him.

I wanted to ask you to take me back to the Tears For Fears days also. You and Roland met in Bath.

Yes. We were 13.

I was reading online, and I don’t know if this is true, that you were leaning toward juvenile delinquency [at the time]. It’s hard to picture that.  (laughter)

Yeah, that’s definitely true. I was always in trouble when I was that age. But it was that sort of teenage [thing] and also that combined with my family. You know, I was always getting in fights, stealing things, getting in trouble. And in retrospect – obviously, you don’t know what you’re going through at the time – in retrospect, what happened from an early age I was always like the good boy. I was always top of my class at school, did the school plays, got great grades in everything. And in retrospect, what happened, I think, was that I still didn’t get the love and attention I wanted even though I was good at everything I was doing. So I think subconciously, I decided [on] the other route. “Let’s see if I can get attention this way.” And so I went completely the other way and was playing truent from school, getting in trouble all the time. And then along came music. And there was a way of getting attention without having to do anything [wrong]. And I’ve always sang, from the age of four. I mean, I was in the school choir, the church choir. So I loved singing from an early age.

So it wasn’t necessarily an easy childhood.

No, my childhood was pretty horrible. I grew up on a council estate – you know, the projects, basically. We had no money. We didn’t have a car. We were poor – very poor. We got evicted ‘cause we were in so much debt. So we got moved to an even worse place than the council estate. You know, the house had an outside toilet. So no, without it being a sob story, my childhood wasn’t particularly happy at all. And it was just my mother – my father was never there – and I had two brothers. So that’s three boys. It was lunacy. But the upside of that is that...I know what not to do [with my own kids] – which is everything my parents did.

In ’85, Tears For Fears’ second album came out, Songs from the Big Chair. The Hurting had been popular in certain circles – but this was totally unprecedented. You guys were all over the radio, all over MTV. You sung lead on what’s arguably the band’s most popular and best song. What was it suddenly like to be all over the place after, a few years earlier, being virtually unknown?

Well, I think we were broken in a bit slower than that. Basically, when Songs from the Big Chair came out and was as big as it was, it was a bit of a blur. Because they want you to work so much, it’s ridiculous. All of a sudden, you’ve gotta cover all of America on tour as well as everywhere else in the world. I don’t remember many specific incidents in that year because it was all just go, go, go. And that’s why it took us a long time between that and making Seeds of Love ‘cause we needed a big breather, to go away and disappear for a bit.

But as far as having success – when we were in a band before, when we were 18, we actually had a hit in Spain. The Hurting came out when I was 21 and we had hits in various places around the world. It wasn’t very big in America [outside] of New York and L.A. So it didn’t just kinda all happen overnight. We did get a sort of taste of it before-hand. I think with Songs from the Big Chair, it became too much though. And I started to become aware that I didn’t like it… A big part of [why I moved] to New York was the fact that when I came here, no one bothered me. I’ve been stopped once on the street in New York in all the time I lived here. And she was some crazy Long Island woman who named her frogs after me! I kid you not.

I don’t get the whole ‘being famous’ thing. It’s confusing to me. And half of that, I readily admit, may have something to do with the relatively low esteem I hold myself in. Which is an issue. Because I’m like, “Why would you be excited about meeting me?” In that sense I find it very peculiar… So I tend to disappear. For me, it was more of a journey of trying to find  where I was comfortable [and] a happy home life, the thing that I never had when I was growing up. All those things were more important to me.

The third album notoriously took a very long time. And I believe you left the band shortly after that,

Yeah, we went on tour for six or nine months [and] at the end of the tour I left. But I had made the decision to leave prior to even going on tour. I made the decision to leave during the recording of that album. I just didn’t really enjoy the process that much, I knew it wasn’t feeling right to me. And during the process, I was flying to New York and back, after meeting my now-wife here, and just enjoying New York more. And I would get back to England and I’d be like “Oh God, I gotta go back to the studio.”

I was actually married before. And I went through a divorce during the recording of that album as well. ‘Cause I was married at a stupidly early age. And [as] I was going through that divorce, I was kind of going through a divorce with Roland as well, ‘cause were fighting all the time. And New York was my kind of retreat. The [interesting] part of all of that at the time was, this is the height of our fame, this is the height of our income -- and I wasn’t happy. So the big plus I got out of it was, I absolutely don’t equate money with happiness. So, it did give me that value at least.

What is your relationship with Roland like these days?

Now it’s fine. I mean, we really don’t have that much in common. [But] that’s what makes it work. That’s why it is what it is. That’s why when we do records together, they sound very different than the records we would do on our own. Because it’s the combination of the two things and it’s both of us compromising…. This is what we agree on. So that’s where the Tears For Fears sound comes from.

- Dave Steinfeld